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14#
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發(fā)表于 2009-3-17 23:04:39
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This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add.
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, M3 {* L& R# h, z3 wHe started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
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cmm talk about programming one.
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I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like 1 K! w4 P& G# C; D- h
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you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so & H0 Q, G4 s( i+ {. o2 o) _
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that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works 5 J6 V% a; _8 Y
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for.
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The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so ) y$ ]9 C: n3 L
, I+ T W& t+ u6 `4 n+ Jthat they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly ( l. i( c/ g4 E2 N
& o& h' R: [: g( f8 Vpray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on.
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* d- ~. N5 @) P' L這一個(gè)人基本上沒(méi)有經(jīng)驗(yàn),，而你們正在免費(fèi)通過(guò)互聯(lián)網(wǎng)完整培訓(xùn)他，我可能稍微增加點(diǎn)難度,。 ( L; u8 W4 T" z
/ s- h, e5 x/ O0 I T% w6 Z他從自己校正他的機(jī)器的各種非常愚蠢的主意開(kāi)始,，現(xiàn)在我們?nèi)菀卓闯鏊粋�(gè)甚至不能正確操作cmm的人,。 4 Y* W- r# J, a9 t0 r& o* z
" a6 Q3 x3 r% R我做出犧牲,閱讀一堆章節(jié)并被他開(kāi)始問(wèn)各種荒謬最基本的cmm 觀念,。 ~' l$ Z8 E+ ~4 O6 N3 x
$ m. a9 I# D4 s6 ^: o& z0 k2 [, x8 ^可能我應(yīng)該更加接納他剛進(jìn)來(lái)就說(shuō):我基本對(duì)cmm了解為零,但是我成為你那樣...你能幫助我嗎?我從那里開(kāi)始?但是我發(fā)現(xiàn)自己不停的被問(wèn)的吃驚.我完全理解,當(dāng)我得到這個(gè)故事必; _% w. |# E. O6 u: z! k! y
: `; B1 b! C7 h9 l0 B" d/ f然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即將發(fā)生倒閉6 Z" m2 e7 ^0 V, y8 x
. L b" f4 q) v) j我看他服務(wù)的公司最后的結(jié)果是財(cái)務(wù)破產(chǎn)作為他'程序'的一部分他們計(jì)劃調(diào)整這部分以便他們?cè)赾mm報(bào)告中看起來(lái)好點(diǎn).他們把這個(gè)給客戶(hù).最多被拒絕或者在使用中完全失敗.當(dāng)我$ E, z k' o/ b( r1 b
$ X. B1 a$ \% }; H/ A讀他那職位的時(shí)候,我真誠(chéng)的起到他不是做方向盤(pán)或者轉(zhuǎn)向制動(dòng)器,安全帶....這個(gè)列表繼續(xù); W% ^' D8 D. ]; ~0 J
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I (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade. & s2 H7 H4 `% L. ]# s! g) F
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Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.! S& I' S# H% K' F7 ]1 M
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9 n6 k) K( B% x, N u$ tNope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
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In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that ) n( b, E) e9 ~" D( S9 @! P# j
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he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE ; } [, z; {7 V- C4 T
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THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!% A( a5 G# |# l' V R5 c& V8 P
# E5 M O' m6 ^& ? L, K P$ B3 ~Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
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3 S: ?% x* F& ncar's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?6 L5 L( J- }( Y& o3 v
我(象你們中很多人一樣）是一個(gè)經(jīng)過(guò)專(zhuān)門(mén)培訓(xùn)對(duì)質(zhì)量吹毛求疵的專(zhuān)業(yè)人士。
# Z, m k8 `9 s& U+ D如果我能找任何的錯(cuò)誤或的問(wèn)題任何事,，讓我們見(jiàn)到那一個(gè)區(qū)段已經(jīng)在他的最后職位中陳述,。
' @$ K* U3 t. ~/ B3 r5 @% d. f! I不，不能在錯(cuò)誤中找一些線索,。 我將會(huì)說(shuō),，他腦子壞掉了。
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事實(shí)上,我在過(guò)去懷疑過(guò)很長(zhǎng)時(shí)間這個(gè)家伙是不是真的是一個(gè)有經(jīng)驗(yàn)的cmm怪人,他僅僅是打亂我們的思路,但是我確認(rèn)他是一個(gè)卓越的人.這是不用討論的,他的情況應(yīng)該被當(dāng)作一個(gè)4 n& Y1 @" S! v) v5 H- y
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優(yōu)秀的學(xué)習(xí)案例:為什么鑒定為cmm怪人,就想機(jī)器一樣
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類(lèi)似：如果一輛車(chē)輛已經(jīng)被檢查,，登記以及許可,，它為什么不是最佳狀態(tài),？ 為什么那操作員應(yīng)該被訓(xùn)練而且得到許可的？ 小車(chē)還好,，所有的工作都一樣,！ 操作員僅僅是湊湊熱鬧& N" i! `7 _* x6 H+ ~. r
6 I$ W( y1 S7 F! E. ]- G5 b( k，對(duì)不對(duì),？ 怎么會(huì)出錯(cuò),？
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/ J# T' _5 n/ z0 {hi,. H( @, d! h& U
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
& a& v# L. I' Q/ s! |GoldenPine
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嗨，8 B' B9 `( Q! g! U2 i: f4 R: E4 }
我認(rèn)為,，你們是從我這郁悶.我真的抱歉,。但是還是感激幫助者。 0 ~1 V8 e! W9 ^( u' Y& E
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my machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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at the end? # S2 u1 q0 z8 v0 d9 q
我的機(jī)器測(cè)量一個(gè)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)環(huán)規(guī)小了3微米.是不是有選項(xiàng)去手動(dòng)補(bǔ)償或我不得不在最后把它加入到結(jié)果,？ % }: z) [1 w# u2 ^- L; a
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; {% s* `& [% C5 |Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
" I' p+ T" v5 Q1 b% Z; s3微米是不是小于名義值,，或3微米小于環(huán)規(guī)的校準(zhǔn)結(jié)果？
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm. d G' @/ m! D4 Z: I
正常,。如果已經(jīng)被標(biāo)定例如10mm（+9mm）,。那么cmm 讀數(shù)為10.06mm。 4 c% \ @( @! r4 c
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+ @6 ~! O0 @4 r5 M10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.
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7 H; s+ u. ?1 i t8 HPerhaps you meant 10.006?
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Is your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the * a( x+ l" W6 f9 c5 j
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the 1 W) X$ S- n+ D- F, w3 g( ^ w
2 N* d" y2 z1 {0 Koptimal "attack angle". 0 t( f+ i" u# L- t$ O$ B+ R1 c" `
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Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the
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; d: i; f3 M1 O7 f; bring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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5 M$ \+ I: K- n(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If + o: T. o6 m( z' Y; \! f$ n
( y0 J: G( V2 Qit's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong. * M; E' h7 ^" S. C
1 F1 F2 R* O3 w' K$ M* dIf it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
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4 C7 ^5 `! a0 O* Z+ D3 m10.06是60個(gè)微米,。六個(gè)微米是.006 ,。 ' Q. @/ L9 y5 }6 @
6 N$ N% K" o N. l& x* f3 H8 }* x可能你認(rèn)為是10.006?; M9 S, A9 E) X) ^
你的cmm是自動(dòng)還是手動(dòng)？ 如果它是手動(dòng),，我的建議是放棄它同時(shí)再買(mǎi)臺(tái)真正的cmm ,。如果它是自動(dòng), 那么確信你有建議一個(gè)探針校正程序。 確定在標(biāo)準(zhǔn)球上的測(cè)量正確的,。 確4 ~+ O5 s7 M, G Z5 m- t
7 x$ v/ j/ u# ]' H. o定點(diǎn)是以正確的位置和最佳的法線角度去接觸標(biāo)準(zhǔn)球.
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8 J2 I7 u! n4 f/ R/ _/ V* G一旦你有一個(gè)校準(zhǔn)測(cè)頭的程序,你應(yīng)該做一些測(cè)試.校準(zhǔn)探針和檢查環(huán)規(guī)多次,。測(cè)量中重新調(diào)整環(huán)規(guī)位置。在測(cè)量中你可能想重復(fù)調(diào)整它但是小心不要影響它的溫度
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0 [0 F1 Q) H3 b# A$ t4 K2 C: m然后,，重復(fù)這整個(gè)程序多次（包括重復(fù)校準(zhǔn)探針） 如果在這里你見(jiàn)到的差異超過(guò).003mm(我預(yù)計(jì)它會(huì)）, 那么你看到的這3個(gè)微米是噪音,。如果它是超過(guò).03mm, 那么那些地方可能
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有錯(cuò)誤。 8 S. x) u5 O' W, S% d4 P
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如果它處于中間,，同時(shí)你想更要的效果.如果可能的,，試一個(gè)較短的測(cè)針。 9 d0 ] @6 h! S; G. D; l" T
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% t# N* N% p. H; B3 sAgreed Ken,
6 F" \+ i; ?, l4 o# H# a" tThe biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I
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realise the choice is not always there.
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: m* N7 I% n, ^9 G1 C+ e3 ^I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder 6 t; t( z: u& f+ `& i
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to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure. 8 x: u* }% R5 @( ?- p
3 Y0 X! F) {" C1 ]3 P5 ]8 M' \The other matters to add up are, ) A) J# x9 R0 y3 |
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
2 ]5 t2 b1 Z$ q/ I* tthe actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ): % E$ I b" I: F- }: b; ]4 l
the algorithm used for the dia result :
5 `: F8 Q/ z3 t$ ]6 |* m2 rroom conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :
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- ~6 P4 J% b8 _ YGood luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. / H5 D! O1 M; D' x$ b0 c1 h# \
同意肯恩,，
6 q5 c: G' x6 e `$ u5 H這個(gè)方法最好是用最大的球莖和最短的探針長(zhǎng)度,。用TP200代替TP2或tp20會(huì)也減小效果，但是我認(rèn)為問(wèn)題并不在那里,。
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0 ^1 S8 I j5 e我總是通過(guò)環(huán)規(guī)的中心設(shè)置我的基準(zhǔn)面(測(cè)量圓柱),雖然這些環(huán)規(guī)從圓柱到外圓面是非常一致的,單你僅僅是不確 % O6 A+ i4 ^! a* }
/ n% t3 k) U: ?2 Y( y+ ^) W0 m# f其他因素加起來(lái)是,， * S4 e S- r' d# x m" c1 H e
機(jī)器的測(cè)量的不確定：
! C9 ] A& x! ~環(huán)規(guī)實(shí)際的校準(zhǔn)結(jié)果（不是被標(biāo)的值）:
9 _8 z! ~: C- ~; c結(jié)果圓的運(yùn)算法則：
+ {9 C: i _: ^$ ~( s8 K! ^6 L8 k房間環(huán)境（臨時(shí)濕度） :: {7 {& T2 o2 e$ |* z
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G.P找到的3微米誤差就在里面,祝你幸運(yùn)!
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Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?
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" F( B4 I- V6 }9 x: P3 H; a) k在直徑測(cè)量之前有必要定位環(huán)規(guī)。我已經(jīng)某處讀我們需要制造 對(duì)準(zhǔn)直徑測(cè)量.是嗎？
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It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns, / b2 N. N6 U0 ^/ Q% ^
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then use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.
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0 m% k% b5 x% B9 NThat includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.
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( |5 Z, b, o* j; VAs a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
; n0 K6 Q' Y7 T% v( ]/ V7 B0 S它只是我個(gè)人的意見(jiàn) G.P. ,，如果你想嘗試達(dá)到3個(gè)微米,， ) d5 j P6 _9 A, ^1 `4 V; n
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使用所有的方法(盡力而為),在測(cè)量任意一個(gè)點(diǎn)都要垂直于表面。
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& K' t. j* x; v% F; T那包括在測(cè)量直徑之前排校準(zhǔn)環(huán)規(guī),。7 r2 \6 f y( _) X
( c! t1 z& j. H& _+ I3 W( h& R! X7 N稍微有點(diǎn)好奇,，環(huán)規(guī)校準(zhǔn)報(bào)告說(shuō)環(huán)規(guī)尺寸是所少？
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I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.
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+ I3 J( e, x/ q我會(huì)把它作為一個(gè)圓柱來(lái)測(cè)量,。設(shè)定我的坐標(biāo)系為圓柱坐標(biāo)系同時(shí)在環(huán)規(guī)中逐漸提高測(cè)量圓* X' `" a% E+ S3 r
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" M; N- g+ C; X* s% C) ~9 WYou are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!, d0 ~) Q, O g" \( s
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC9 C( E! k$ m; i+ O0 M R+ {+ I% J
What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP2002 C% e0 F% m( V R! \8 L1 W+ E
What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
9 y5 T) H4 ^7 r' d/ j. p) H* v, x- T' }What is the temperature in the room?
% X% ^4 K4 w P* X$ U6 bWhat diameter is the ring gauge?
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- X% r0 _, y. w) ~7 pLet's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5
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people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.3 R/ i- Z4 I% r) Y
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你試圖測(cè)量一個(gè)直徑只有3微米的偏差,？！
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哪類(lèi)機(jī)器,？手動(dòng)或自動(dòng)& K% q: Q1 j" Z; @2 P% u: a* j; a$ s
哪類(lèi)探頭,？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP2005 R+ @, y( C$ }- H- `" w
探針長(zhǎng)度為多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米4 o0 Q' O- _% l0 }8 Q0 p3 \
房間中,，溫度多少,？9 C: a1 `9 M! U$ D# s5 ^
環(huán)規(guī)直徑為多少？4 {+ V. m5 q9 a1 i
& `' h& U; d A1 @9 F+ F* S
讓我們正視它,。3 um（0.003) 并不重要,，如果機(jī)器的附近站立的1個(gè)人呼吸 真和明天5個(gè)人呼吸都能影響你的測(cè)量。 |
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樓主: 吟嘯徐行
發(fā)表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
